Is this not the reason the second amendment exists? Regards An Australian Edit: I’m not advocating for violence. More so “a well regulated militia” which could be established by protesters or Democratic Governors for genuine self defence.
Armed victims increase the cost of tyranical actions but modern warfare and thus miltia movements is not just (have weapon, intimidate or kill enemy). Honestly one of the failures of the defense of the second amendment has been the failure to modernize and includr other parts of warfare.
Honestly there is a mixture of denial in what is actually happening and support too
I’ll give you a real answer instead of all of these other dork ass answers.
First, there aren’t enough of us to do so.
Second, you really haven’t thought through the repercussions of open carrying. Which relates to the first reason.
Open carrying puts a huge target on you. You need lots and lots of people to remain “safe”. And you won’t be safe. What are you going to do, shoot an ice agent if they try to arrest you? If that’s your goal, why open carry? Do you think that the government here is going to suddenly follow constitutional law around a citizens right to bear arms? As they’re literally illegally arresting people?
Sooner or later the amount of guns in this country is going to catch up to the ruling class but it’s not going to be at a protest.
Because people who are legal concealed carry permit holders regularly get shot in the back by police. People who act like you can stand up to a major world military are idiots.
Don’t turn your back on the police and don’t face them alone, fucking duh. Cops are cowards, they’ll be a lot more hesitant to shoot someone if there’s a credible risk of dozens/hundreds of other people immediately shooting back.
No shit. That’s the problem. You bring your friends and the cops will bring their tanks. Then what, have a dick measuring contest?
… Oh wait, they’ll gun you all down and laugh about it instead.
So yeah, guns can be used, but let’s not pretend flexing your firearm in public will easily accomplish your goal. Be thoughtful and careful about when and where.
We had tanks in Afghanistan, didn’t stop us from losing. Nobody in history, no matter how well armed, has ever won a war against a dedicated insurgency.
This right here. Asymmetrical warfare is terrible for modern occupying armies.
don’t face them alone
*pervasive surveillance state has entered the chat*
Idk how you figure that has anything to do with whether or not you open carry alone
How do you organize an armed group that’s big enough to be effective without the fascists hearing about it in advance?
skill issue
You probably don’t, catching them completely off guard isn’t a reasonable expectation or a good reason not to try
No, that’s when the tanks come in. Have you forgotten that the police have used airplanes and bombs to subdue people? They have even destroyed entire neighborhoods. In what world do you live where you think you can win here? You will be squashed just like millions before you and the world will keep turning.
Nobody in human history has ever won a war against a dedicated insurgency. You’re historically/militarily illiterate and a coward.
And you stopped arguing and started making personal attacks so this conversation serves no further purpose.
No, I made a coherent historical argument and then accurately personally attacked you, you’re using the second part as an excuse to ignore the first part but we both know you’ve got no counter-argument. Like I said, fucking coward.
Because trump is hoping people will do something stupid so that he can overreact and put the entire country in lock down?
Unless you’re going for a violent uprising, violent protests typically do less than large scale continuous peaceful protests
The problem is that the latter also doesn’t happen in the US, it’s as if Americans just don’t care…
Oh yes, I know the excuses, we have a job, we have a family to feed, and DUDE YOU ARE A JEW IN GERMANY 1934, WOULD YOU PLEASE FRIGGING DO SOMETHING ALREADY?
even if no one does anything drastic, trump will escalate anyway. we may get something staged like with charlie kirk, but they may not even find a bullshit reason to justify themselves.
it’s as if Americans just don’t care…
They’ve been propagandized over generations into not trying. They have been lead to believe that what is here now is good and don’t see that it could be better.
I’m not advocating for violence and 100% agree on the effectiveness of peaceful protests.
Ice thugs arresting unarmed citizens and lawful temporary residents brandish firearms and shove you into a van.
Ice thugs arresting armed citizens will probably shoot first.
In no case will they identify themselves or allow for an orderly review of all the paperwork every citizen would surely have with them at all times.
Why do people think that guns stop bullets? Guns attract bullets.
Because the White House is looking for an excuse to have the military start slaughtering civilians and imprisoning democrats. A general strike is what we need to do
At a certain point we have to fight back.
The argument of “we can’t respond to their violence with violence or they will become more violent” doesn’t hold water when they are getting increasingly violent anyway.
It’s a coward’s fallacy
I do understand your point but the military was told to attack and commit war crimes on American civilians so I just think that a general strike would be the most effective strategy in the situation we currently face. That’s just my opinion on the approach that would be the most efficient at this time.
It’s the most powerful tool in our arsenal. And it’s just sitting right at our feet. But we just won’t pick it up. I don’t get it.
General strike now.
Once 11mil more strike cards are filled out it begins.
Otherwise we are waiting until 2028 when the Auto Workers Union starts their planned general strike
I will keep trying but I have very little faith in my fellow countrymen
Italy made it happen today with no preparation
I was once on a train in Italy and the train had a wildcat strike. It was just that train and only in that one location. Everyone on the train was resigned, because it’s part of the culture.
Italy has had a long history of radical communist and anarchists, actually having political status and pushing back continuously. Here we are, trying to make it part of our own local cultures. There’s a lot of work to do.
Italy has massive nation wide unions (syndicates) and these strikes had more participation than any other in recent years. They exist today because of huge support for communists in the WW2 aftermath. I don’t think the US has anything of the sorts
No I think McCarthyism was detrimental to our unions
They didn’t grow up isolated in a country 50x the size of Italy with a completely different system of values and it isn’t legal for their newspapers and government to use propaganda against them.
Tbh i don’t even think half the country knows what a strike is, let alone has class consciousness
If you feel like participating you can go fill out a strike card.
The working people of italia are all joined by a single piece of spaghetti
it isnt legal for their newspapers and govt to use propaganda against them and a different system of values
I’m sorry, what?
Mussolini’s grandchild literally represents Italy in the European Parliament, you’re pretending america is some special fascist wonderland, when it’s just a culture built on dispossession, which plenty of Italians have migrated to, contributed to, and benefitted from
I’ll give you one thing, Italy has a much higher union density than the usa (30% compared to 10%), i know for a fact it’s near impossible to get younger folk in a settler nation to join a union
anyway whatever, watching a bunch of yanks suddenly start up with has anyone thought about a general strike? will never not give me a laugh
join your union, read Lenin, start exercising
.ml
Blocked
It is very cavalier to say that unless you are willing to be one of the first sacrifices.
im already in the line of fire for being trans, may as well take some nazis with me
We need both
people are cowards
Americans are domesticated cowards
Don’t have kids, leave the country if you can afford to.
The No Kings protest in Utah ended tragically because armed “peacekeepers” (aka armed civilians) shot at a protester who was open-carrying an AR-15 at the protest. The protester had no ill intentions, but the peacekeepers didn’t know that. The peacekeepers missed and killed a bystander.
That’s why you don’t open carry at protests. The untrained “good guy with a gun” is likely to shoot you. Carry concealed if you’re going to carry, or don’t bring a gun at all.
Sure. But protest organizers have a responsibility to create a clear policy and communicate this policy in an open carry state, and they also have a responsibility to properly vet any people that do communicate that they will attend with a firearm.
The volunteer open carry person was not trained, and was not given any instruction as simple as “return fire only” or “do not shoot first”.
That’s not accurate.
The person shot and killed (Mr. Ah-loo) was unarmed. He was struck by a round fired at someone (mr. Gamboa) who had snuck out of the protest and returned with an AR-15.
Gamboa was arrested for attempted murder, and the person who fired the shot is/was being investigated, but has not been arrested/charged at this time
What are you saying is wrong? When I read the comment you reply to, they do say “The peacekeepers missed and killed a bystander.”, and “shot at a protester who was open-carrying an AR-15 at the protest”, which is what you’re saying too.
The protester had no ill intentions, but the peacekeepers didn’t know that.
Gamboa snuck away, retrieved a hidden gun, came back and pointed out at someone. He very clearly had ill intentions, and was arrested for attempted murder.
That’s false.
He didn’t make any attempt to hide when he took out his gun, did not load it, and when they didn’t charge him after he was arrested a judge ordered him to be released.
Guns are the other guys’s thing. Democrats fight with hope and dignity and going high.
Wait, why are we losing? /s
Edit: Ignore all the other people giving reasons. Maybe some of them are true, but it’s not why.
I’m close enough to the country to know that taking up arms is too taboo and “other” for the blue Americans to have ever considered in the first place. Lemmy is full of blue Americans, who have an emotional incentive to make it rational, though.
Im an american who does not believe in guns as effective. They have bigger guns after all. Im a city boy though and do think gun laws should be local but never disallowed on private property where the owner allows it. I compare it to the old westerns were you had to give up your gun to the sheriff while you were in town.
The 2nd amendment was written in 1789 when information moved at the rate of the printing press and bullets came from muskets.
This takeover has been in planning since the 1970s. They courted the NRA and gun owners along with the attack on public schooling so said gun owners wouldn’t understand what fascism is when the moment came.
In the grand scheme of things, it took the fascists 200 years to find a way around the 2nd amendment.
The founding fathers used every trick in the fascist playbook before there was even such a thing. We have always been a country created by the wealthy for the wealthy. You can’t examine our history critically and come away not seeing blatant authoritarian and proto-fascist ideology and actions.
So no, the fascists have always been here and in charge filling our heads with the propaganda to make us believe we are a free law abiding democracy.
Everything else you said was spot on. Just because we have always been fascist doesn’t mean we can’t get objectively worse
There’s a reason they’re trying their damndest to provoke people into a shooting match but:
Yes.
However, the idea was created in mind so that everyone could be armed in case this very thing happened to occur BUT did not take into consideration advancement in technology, and the ability of the federal government to restrict arms.
Based on the photos I’ve seen, the feds are wearing plate carriers - level IV body armor, designed to stop a .30-06 round. If it’s level 3, it’s gonna stop .223 (Ar-15).
Very few citizens have automatic weapons. You can’t own an RPG without the the right documents. Explosive manufacturing is dangerous, and difficult.
You can’t match federal firepower with the second amendment.
The feds are currently using coward tactics. They are kidnapping people who can’t afford decent housing, let alone smartphones. They go in fast, kidnap everyone, and get out. Even with armed people, they wouldn’t be able to respond fast enough.
That’s why all of us Americans can quickly tell when someone is just trying to start shit when they get angry online…
There are ways to fight back. But they require patience, communication, planning, subterfuge, and more importantly OPSEC. Otherwise the regime just slaughters everyone like they want to.
That’s why all of us Americans can quickly tell when someone is just trying to start shit when they get angry online…
There are ways to fight back. But they require patience, communication, planning, subterfuge, and more importantly OPSEC. Otherwise the regime just slaughters everyone like they want to.
Louder for the motherfuckers in the back!
There are so many fucking people online upset about this shit that amount to not much more than hot air. Chasing the perfect to the detriment of the good. Purity tests. Arguing for blatantly impossible courses of action, or at least ones that will nevet get enough buy in from the greater population to work. Sitting on their asses getting angry while worshipping some half-cocked idea of open revolution, full overthow of the government, and dissolution of the capitalist economic framework… without ever evaluating how the fuck the world could even get to that state except “magic unspecific mass violent revolution”, “complete apocalypse scenario then rebuild”, or “if we all wish upon a star really hard, all the bad people will have simultaneous fatal anuerysms”. Not to mention how the fuck could that state ever be maintained afterwards.
If it’s not outright impossible, it will require an astronomical amount of prep and planning. None of this is shit that just “happens” through sheer desire or will without slow supportive action to build what is neccessary.
People getting their emotional catharsis ranting, venting, and shit stirring without taking any true action. Stirring other people up into the same state.
Get offline, get involved locally, become an expert on the spaces and people around you. Form local connections. Accept that you aren’t an action hero, and if the US military is turned on you, as a civilian you cannot win through force. Build relevant skills for a crisis. Build relevant skills for ongoing resistance. Build skills for organizing locally and securely.
Most importantly: Shut the absolute fuck up. Just shut the fuck up. As far as it’s within your power, don’t make yourself a target and blend in.
I’m already not a good example, as my OPSEC on this account is abysmal. I take solace in that none of my plans or actions involve abject resistance, and are all local good type shit.
Abject resistance is important. Connections are important. Communication is important. Logistics are important. Leave the fighting to the fighters. We’re not fremen. We didn’t live our whole lives to become death commandos.
Having a Lemmy account at all is bad OPSEC. Gotta have active accounts on state-approved social media for that.
Thank you for having a post that helps me hope everyone is not insane.
That’s why all of us Americans can quickly tell when someone is just trying to start shit when they get angry online…
The abysmal state of your union somewhat belies your stated ability to “tell when someone is just trying to start shit”. Someone started shit quite some time ago, friend. They continue to do so and I don’t see any evidence that the body politic is even remotely aware.
I’m just saying the American shit detection algorithm might not be as sophisticated as you’re making it out to be.
TLDR: “This is why we can’t stop nazis, because I’m a chicken and I’m repeating nonsense”
We outnumber them thousands to one. How is their armor going to protect them when their tires are slashed, and they have to walk 30mi through downtown? It’s not.
“But they can kill a hundred people with their awful nazi guns!”
Fuck you, you chickenshit nazi propaganda spewing coward. Nothing can save nazis against their sociopathically bad planning.
Alright, I encourage you to lead by example and tell me how it goes.
yeah its always cracks me up to see that type of shit since what they are saying would make the news and they obviously did not doing it. Don’t need large numbers to slash tires yet it is not happening and yet that person talks as if they are totally all over that. I think the true chickenshit is in their mirror.
If that commenter actually believed what he was writing, Putin would be dealing with an insurrection in St. Petersburg by now.
I love the choice of standard to hold yourself up to.
We outnumber them thousands to one.
Only when we show up. Most videos of kidnappings I’ve seen it’s maybe a dozen citizens vs a dozen or slightly fewer agents. It needs to be more like 10 to 1 to properly discourage or defend their attacks without an all out assault.
Teenagers that have toy guns are regularly shot and killed by police in America. The cops get away with murder. They’d need no justification if someone was actually carrying a real fire arm.
they don’t need justification anyway. they’ll just plant evidence if they don’t wanna be sloppy
