If you don’t, no need to reply telling me you don’t. I live in the woods with some critters. I live pretty far from neighbors/police so having a gun gives me peace of mind. I also hunt and consider myself a gun hobbiest. I enjoy shooting targets, cleaning/organizing, reloading and earning food with guns.

    • Chippys_mittens@lemmy.worldOP
      31·
      2 days ago

      You missed the part where I said if NO you don’t need to reply. Glad you got to pretend you’re better than me though.

      • Treczoks@lemmy.world
        22·
        2 days ago

        You are aware that, while there a lot of guns in Switzerland, most of them are under lock and key and without ammo? That they are not for “fun shooting”, but issued by the military to reservists for military use only?

        • golden_zealot@lemmy.mlEnglish
          3·
          2 days ago

          I read your comment here and decided to verify what I know about this by going out and reading actual sources.

          Based on many multiple sources, I do not agree with the heart of your argument here and I would recommend you read up on gun regulation, culture, and sport as it pertains to Switzerland.

          While it may be technically correct that most firearms there are as you say (I could not find a source stating that), it does not mean there is not a highly permissive gun culture in Switzerland with a lot of private ownership.

          People in Switzerland can relatively easily obtain and use firearms for the purpose of sport, including for those who are not from Switzerland and do not have permanent residence, and firearm sport is extremely popular there.

          Children can also be lent firearms there for sport shooting.

          Note that they have the largest rifle shooting competition in the world.

          Note that while minors can’t acquire firearms, they can be lent firearms by their shooting club or legal representative and the firearm is registered in their name for the duration of lending, and then they can both transport and use it alone.

          That does not sound like a country where guns are not used for “fun shooting” to me.

          If you can produce citations for your claim, that would be great. Here are mine.

          https://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/

          https://www.npr.org/2013/03/19/174758723/facing-switzerland-gun-culture

          Switzerland has a strong gun culture compared to other countries in the world. Recreational shooting is widespread in Switzerland. Practice with guns is a popular form of recreation, and is encouraged by the government, particularly for the members of the militia.

          https://web.archive.org/web/20160207062046/http://www.swissshooting.ch/PortalData/1/Resources/dokumente/reglemente/gewehr300m/efs/3_10_01_d_EFS_Regl_2016.pdf

          https://web.archive.org/web/20180919115043/http://www.lebendige-traditionen.ch/traditionen/00234/index.html?lang=en

          Additionally, the Schweizerischer Schützenverein, a Swiss shooting association, organizes the Eidgenössische Schützenfeste, every five years and the Eidgenössisches Feldschiessen is held annually. Every person with Swiss citizenship, aged 10 years or older, can take part at any federal ranges and will be able to shoot for free with the ordinance rifle. Before the turn of the century, about 200,000 people used to attend the annual Eidgenössisches Feldschiessen, which is the largest rifle shooting competition in the world. In 2012 they counted 130,000 participants.

          https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1998/2535_2535_2535/en#art_11_a

          While minors can’t acquire firearms, they can be lent firearms by their shooting club or their legal representative. The firearm is then registered to their name for the duration of the lending and they can then transport and use it alone.

          https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2008/767/de

          Firearms regulation in Switzerland allows the acquisition of semi-automatic, and – with a may-issue permit – fully automatic firearms, by Swiss citizens and foreigners with or without permanent residence.

          https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/swiss-guns/553448/

          The laws pertaining to the acquisition of firearms in Switzerland are amongst the most liberal in the world, as well as being the most permissive in Europe.

          https://www.fedpol.admin.ch/fedpol/en/home/sicherheit/waffen/waffenerwerb.html

          Swiss gun laws are primarily about the acquisition of arms, and not ownership. As such a license is not required to own a gun by itself, but a shall-issue permit is required to purchase most types of firearms. Bolt-action rifles, break-actions and hunting rifles do not require an acquisition permit, and can be acquired with just a record extract.

          Julie Hartley-Moore, “The Song of Gryon: Political Ritual, Local Identity, and the Consolidation of Nationalism in Multiethnic Switzerland”, Journal of American Folklore 120.476 (2007) 204–229, citing Kohn Hans Kohn, Nationalism and Liberty: The Swiss Example. London: George Allen and Unwin, 1956, p. 78.

          https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/1052760-chacun-peut-deposer-son-arme-a-larsenal-des-2010.html

          https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2018/0307/Switzerland-has-lots-of-guns.-But-its-gun-culture-takes-different-path-from-US

          https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/waffen-datenbank-in-der-schweiz-sind-876000-pistolen-und-gewehre-registriert-ld.1311250

          Swiss gun culture has emerged from a long tradition of shooting, which served as a formative element of national identity in the post-Napoleonic Restoration of the Confederacy, and the long-standing practice of a militia organization of the Swiss Army in which soldiers’ service rifles are usually stored privately at their homes (it became the choice of the soldier in 2010). What started as a gun culture centered around defense of the country through military duty also became a target shooting and collecting one. In addition to this, many cantons (notably the alpine cantons of Grisons and Valais) have strong traditions of hunting, accounting for a large but unknown number of privately held hunting rifles, as only weapons acquired since 2008 are registered.

            • golden_zealot@lemmy.mlEnglish
              1·
              2 days ago

              Not really, it probably took me under 30 minutes to look this up.

              A personal insult to me also isn’t an argument contrary to my claims about Switzerland, nor is it a defense of yours, so I will assume you admit you were incorrect in your claim about the country.

              Furthermore, it’s not even very good ad-hominem in that I never even claimed that firearms are a good thing. I only ever contested that Switzerland is cultured despite it’s highly permissive gun laws, and cited sources showing that they do engage in a lot of firearm sport, and have personal access to firearms in refutation of your anecdote.

              Since I never said anything about positive or negative effects of firearms themselves in this conversation, this means you have made an assumption about my personal point of view of firearms and are now using your own assumption as a counter argument to a topic we have not even discussed between ourselves at this juncture.

              This is called a straw man fallacy.

              To avoid that, it is best to stay on topic, in this case, whether or not firearms are accessible to the public for sport in Switzerland.

              Please either point out where I made the statement that guns are good etc. to show why I am a “gun nut”, or cite a source in reference to your claim about firearm accessibility in Switzerland if you want to support anything you have said thus far.

              Otherwise, feel free to just not reply to me.

      • Treczoks@lemmy.world
        54·
        3 days ago

        Germany. Can youvimagine: A country where the anniversary of the school shooting is still a news item every year after alk that time.

        • Erik@discuss.onlineEnglish
          1·
          3 days ago

          I wish that was the case here (Michigan, USA). We have had two in recent memory.

          What are your thoughts on firearms ownership in the US, given what has happened to our government lately? Do you see merit in the idea of civilian ownership of small arms in our current circumstances?

          • Treczoks@lemmy.world
            22·
            3 days ago

            If people in the US still believe a rogue government can be reined in by a handful of armed idiots, well, I’ve got a bridge for sale.

            The less people have guns, the better. Less accidents, less murder and suicides, less school shootings, and less guns being bought and stolen by criminals.

            And one big part of the problem is that people who should not have access to anything more dangerous than a stick can still get their hands on guns in the US.

            • Erik@discuss.onlineEnglish
              1·
              3 hours ago

              No question that banning guns reduces all of those things. In Germany it also made it easier to round up Jews, homosexuals and other undesirables in the middle of the last century. I don’t think that human nature has changed since then. Is civilian gun ownership the only thing preventing similar behavior in the US? Or is it irrelevant as I infer that you believe? I don’t think that there is a definitive answer.

              There is merit in many of the different points of view on the subject. Unfortunately, most arguments around gun ownership and bans are fear-based. That makes rational discussion very difficult. It also makes it easy to demonize people who don’t agree with you.

              • Treczoks@lemmy.world
                1·
                3 hours ago

                If the Jews and other minorities had guns in Germany 90 years ago is similarly irrelevant as having guns in the US nowadays.

                Or do you actually believe a few wannabe freedumb fighters would actually stop a rogue US government?

              • Erik@discuss.onlineEnglish
                1·
                3 hours ago

                I noticed that you aren’t arguing with the “idiots” part. We have a lot more than a handful of those…